Advice Column 2001

The Advice Column contains a tremendous amount of information. However, it doesn't come even close to the information contained in the "Complete Foaling Manual." I assure you that if you like the column, you will love the book. And one of the great advantages to the book is having all that information at your fingertips right outside the mare's stall. For easy ordering, just click on the "Order Manual" link at the left. Don't foget to contribute to the column by clicking on "Submit Question." I would love to hear from you!

Thanks much, Theresa

Submitted by Julie & Tim in Australia on February 5, 2001:

Please could you send information on ruptured pre pubic tendon. Please include description of the condition, treatment option and prognosis. Thank you.

Dear Julie and Tim,

Prepubic tendon rupture is a tearing apart of the large tendon that "slings" the mare's abdomen from front to back, supporting the weight of the abdominal contents. Any mare that is suspected to have a prepubic tendon rupture should be seen immediately by a veterinarian. A pregnant mare with this rupture will not be able to delivery her foal by herself because without the tendon, she does not have the ability to push effectively. Prognosis varies and can only be determined on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes, surgery can be done in which the tendon is replaced by a heavy net-like structure.

Hope this helps.

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Submitted by Jackie in Ohio on February 9, 2001:

I have a retired track and groom nasty mannered mare. She has been off track for four years and is now seven years old. When she comes in heat she is a witch. We have tried everything to try and make her comfortable during her heat cycle. She squeals, strikes, bites, and kicks. Medically there has been nothing found to be wrong with her. We spent a lot of money when we bought her to see if something was wrong. Being from excellent bloodlines we decided to breed her. Now I'm afraid she will freak out when foaling. Then possibly kill her foal during her ninth day heat cycle. Right now she is turned out to pasture. I will bring her in shortly to brush her, and get her used to her stall. When she is stalled, it is difficult getting in. She becomes very, very defensive. My veterinarian hopes that motherhood will do the trick. I DOUBT IT! I see nothing but problems ahead. I want to be prepared for any problem. I know all the basics and have foaled at least 150 times and possibly more. But this one has me worried. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you for your time.

Dear Jackie,

Sounds like you know what you're facing, and you're probably already as prepared as anyone to deal with this mare. Hopefully, foaling will do a lot to change her attitude. But your biggest problem may come about an hour after foaling, when she decides that she doesn't want anyone in the stall with her baby. I've seen mares like this before and fortunately, all have taken to their babies. But they are terrible to deal with. I'd be sure she has a halter on all the time, have sedatives ready, your vet alerted, and maybe even have some frozen colostrum on hand. You may also have to leave a lead shank on the mare after she foals so that you have some advantage when you have to catch her. Other than that, there really isn't much you can do.

Hope this helps, and please let us know how she does.

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Posted by Dana in Oregon on February 13, 2001:

I have a 4 y/o maiden mare that is not due till the 2nd week of March 2001. The vet was out at the end of January as the mare was off her feed and I wanted to be sure all was well. The vet said at the time that she would be surprised if my mare went another 4 weeks. She started bagging on the 29th of Jan (just a little) she still only has a small bag and not much loosening of her muscles. However, she is very unsteady in the hind end so I know there has been some loosening. The baby appears to have dropped in the last day or so as her belly is sunk near her pelvis. No milk present and she has been rolling a lot (which she never does) also she is getting very sweet (she has never had much use for people). My question after all that is do you think this mare is going to foal early? She is only 310 days along at the moment. We know this because she only let the stallion breed her once. This is to early, right?

Dear Dana,

Since the mare is a maiden, it could be that she's showing all these behavioral changes just because she doesn't understand the discomfort and pressure that she's feeling. I've seen maidens act this way for weeks. They seem to react to everything that an experienced mare understands and just ignores.

Take care, and let us know all about your new little one.

Follow up by Dana on February 13, 2001:

Thank you for your advice. It is a relief to find out that all the signs she is showing could just be her discomfort and not knowing what is happening. I will however keep a close eye on her till she does foal. I will let you know how things go. Thanks again.

Follow up by Dana on November 28, 2001:

On February 13 2001 I e-mailed a question to you. I have to thank you again for your advice at the time. I did however never let you know what happened. My vet was wrong, my maiden mare foaled late and the resulting foal was a healthy bay tobiano filly! Mare and foal did great with no assistance from me ( I was however present in case assistance was required). Also that same month 4 days later, one of my other mares delivered a sorrel overo filly. Last but not least two months later my last mare delivered a sorrel overo filly. Three colored girls! All healthy! What more could I ask! Thanks so much for posting all those questions and answers, they help a lot!

Dear Dana,

Thanks so much for the update! Congratulations on your three healthy fillies, with color no less!

Enjoy!

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Submitted on by Bron in Australia on February 14, 2001:

I have a pony mare who is meant to be four months in foal. I noticed the other day that her paddock mate was in season and that Karli was very interested. Later I noticed Karli ,the mare in foal, mount her paddock mate who is a mare also. Does this mean we have lost our precious bundle or does this happen sometimes? By the way Karli is a maiden and this is an excellent advice column. Thank you.

Dear Bron,

Thanks so much for your kind words about the column! It isn't at all unusual for pregnant mares to act "studdy." It comes from the hormonal influences of pregnancy. If you see anything else that strikes you as strange, it would be good to have the mare checked by a vet to see if she is still in foal. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about her boyish behavior.

Good luck!

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Submitted by Gael in North Carolina on February 16, 2001:

My friend's morgan mare foaled last night a lovely big colt. His back legs are windswept. What is the prognosis for this condition? She has been advised by the vet to keep him in for a week. They are in a large foaling stall. The vet seems to think he will be fine. Thanks for your comments.

Dear Gael,

Windswept foals generally straighten up just fine with no treatment. I wouldn't be worried about keeping the mare and foal inside unless the foal is having trouble getting around or if the weather is bad.

Thanks for writing.

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Submitted by Jane in Kentucky on February 23, 2001:

Have just found your board. Learning a LOT! We also have your book. My question is: We are repeatedly told that the red bag problem is caused by mares eating fescue. We have fenced her off fescue. She eats grain and alfalfa mix hay. This mare did lose a foal to red bag before we got her. Is this likely to happen again or is keeping her off fescue sufficient? Thanks.

Dear Jane,

It's really a matter of whether or not the previous red bag was a result of ingesting infested fescue. Mares can absolutely red bag for reasons other than fescue, and in my experience, a mare that has red bagged once is more likely to do it again than a mare that has never done it. But it is many times a situation that can be dealt with if you are there for the delivery. Since you have my book, you know that there is a pretty extensive discussion about what to do. Just do your best to be there when she foals and chances are good that everything will be fine. And best case, maybe she won't red bag this time!

Please let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Shelly in Texas on March 1, 2001:

Today is March 1st and my mare delivered at 8:30pm the 27th. Was due on the 28th so that was normal. When she was having the baby, one foot popped out of the rectum. Thank goodness we were there. My husband pushed it back in and out where it was supposed to be. It took about 30 minutes and the baby was out. Everything looked normal. The baby tried to get up about an hour later but couldn't stand up very well (weak). We milked the moma and fed with a bottle. I spent all night with the baby making him get up and nurse. Finally yesterday after noon he started getting up on his own and nursing. He still seems a little weak. He will get up on his own, nurse, walk a few steps a then lay down and sleep. Sometimes he will start rolling, kicking his feet and lays in the weirdest positions then just sleeps. I called the vet and he said as long as he gets up on his own and nurses, there is nothing else that can be done. Is there something else I can do to help him get stronger? It's been over 24 hours and he still isn't standing for very long. When he stands and walks to nurse he looks OK.

Dear Shelly,

I think the vet should see this foal. He should be stronger by now and the behavior you described--rolling, kicking his feet, and lying in weird positions--is the hallmark of a foal in some kind of distress. Until the vet comes out, the best thing you can do is keep doing what you've been doing. Make sure he gets up to nurse at least once an hour and a couple of times an hour is even better. Is he having bowel movements? Have you seen him urinate? Is his temperature normal--100-101? These are the things I would look for specifically. If your vet isn't willing to make the trip to see the foal, I would call a different vet.

Please let us know how it goes

Follow up by Shelly on March 3, 2001:

I e-mailed you the other day about our baby being very weak. I wanted to let you know that we took him to another vet and him and the moma are still there. At four days old he is still very weak. He will get up and nurse on his own but he lays down alot. The vet took blood work and found that his liver was not functioning properly on top of maybe some other organs. His stomach was x-rayed and was full of gas which explained the rolling he was doing. The vet has him on fluids, pain medication, tagament and antibiodics. Is this problem called dysmature? If so, what are the chances of him making it? The vet keeps telling us to give him another 24 hours. I don't want him to suffer. Thank You for your advice.

Dear Shelly,

I'm very glad that you got in touch with another vet about the foal, and sorry that he isn't doing better. But it sounds like this vet is doing everything possible. That's all you can do. I can't tell from your description if the foal was dysmature or not. It could be. And lots of times with these foals, if you just give them some time, they will come out of it and be fine. As long as the foal's pain is controlled fairly well, I'd give him the time. Go with what the vet says--the vet won't let the foal suffer unduly.

I'll be thinking about all of you. Please keep us updated.

Follow up by Shelly on March 4, 2001:

Just wanted to let you know that our vet called about 4:00am to let us know the baby turned for the worse and we decided to put him down. Thanks for all your help.

Dear Shelly,

I'm so very sorry! But you can at least rest assured that you and the vet did everything possible. You will be in my thoughts.

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Submitted by Donna in California on March 1, 2001:

We purchased a QH last November. It is our first horse and was purchased for our daughter to be part of a colt training program in college. (She's wanted a horse most of her life, finally we bought into it). We originally thought the horse was slightly out of shape, and overweight. She came from reputable breeders and a vet check showed everything okay. Two weeks ago after months of rigourous daily exercise, reducing her food intake, multiple wormings and discussions with other more knowledgeable people about her continual weight gain, we discovered that our horse is due to give birth at any moment. She was checked just last week by the vet again, who suggested that he believed she would be foaling any moment. The baby is alive and kicking and at that point in "perfect position" to deliver. We have had to move her to a new larger facility. She seems to have every symptom anyone has mentioned, she is really ready to go. However, last night all night she had a symptom that we have not heard of ....she started opening and shutting her very elongated vulva, over and over again for many hours. We thought that was the beginning of labor, but clearly another entire nights sleep lost and no baby. I have never heard mention of this symptom. Have you heard of this? We expect tonight to be the night (we've said that every night for a week, haha). Her bag is fuller, waxed over, she's very very soft in the hind quarters, and has dropped substantially. What was the symptom she was showing? P.S.- I wrote to you moments ago....I forgot to mention this. Sadly our mare just turned 2 a couple weeks ago. Babies having babies, of course we are very concerned. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Dear Donna,

The mare opening and closing her vulva isn't really a symptom, it's more a sign that she's uncomfortable. It's perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. Of course it's always concerning when a two year old foals. But since you're doing all that you can be being there to help her if she needs it, I'm sure all will be fine.

Please let us know when she foals.

Follow up by Donna on March 3, 2001:

I wrote you a few days ago. We have a maiden mare that is just 2 years old due to deliver at any moment. We moved her to a larger facility just days ago due to concerns about her location. She seems to have taken the change well. Vet inspection a week ago said she could go any minute. We have a few immediate concerns I was hopeful you might shed some light on. Suddenly when touching her belly, she responded with trying to bite my daughter. She is pawing a lot, in fact creating a huge nest in her straw, digging way down. Thirdly she is shedding huge amounts of hair. Might this be from moving her inside from a partially inside stall? Is it something due to the pregnancy, or something we should be worrying about? She also urinated a milky white fluid. We've been told that is okay, is it? Anxiously awaiting your response, thanks ever so much in advance.

Dear Donna,

All of the mare's behavior sounds normal to me. The touchiness about her belly is a result of her discomfort, as is the pawing. The shedding is not at all uncommon this time of year in a pregnant mare. I always get questions in late winter about pregnant mares shedding buckets when other horses aren't. Not to worry, it's normal and maybe due to hormone changes or the fact that pregnant mares have a much greater circulatory volume that non-pregnant horses. It is normal that her urine has turned milky white, and this is usually a good indication that the hormone changes that occur shortly before delivery have taken place. When I see that change in urine color, I keep an especially close watch on them.

Please! Keep us updated!

Follow up by Donna on March 4, 2001:

Gosh I don't know how we'd be surviving this without your help right now! As I wrote over the last few days our 2 year old maiden mare has all the signs of foaling as well as the vet’s visit last week telling us she's due anytime. It's been a long 2 weeks of waiting and watching, we are very nervous. My last emails said that she's pawing, shedding, has milky urine, stretched and softened vulva, rear collapsing, up and down with frequency and she's slightly off diet and very moody, uncomfortable and clearly not feeling well.

Last night and throughout today her bag has dropped further and filled up with milk. It's not leaking. It had waxed up earlier in the week and then dried up. Nothing like this though. My daughter went and washed her teats and applied Vaseline as they were chapped and raw. Our horse seemed delighted and clearly appreciated it. Do you think the bag filling up is the final sign? Do you think it could finally be tonight? or is it just another sign that means sometime soon in the next few days to weeks?

Dear Donna,

I wish I could tell you that her udder filling more is the final sign, but I know better than to make a guess like that (especially without being able to see the mare)! The one thing I can say with certainty is that she's definitely getting closer :-). And I don't think this will go on for weeks longer. I hope for all of your sakes that she gets it done soon.

One thing--it isn't a good idea to put Vaseline, or anything else, on the mare's udder. All that does is encourage dirt and bacteria to cling. I'd wash the Vaseline off. Truly, putting Vaseline on at this point does a lot more for the people than it does for the mare.

Let us know when that baby finally gets here!

Follow up by Donna on March 16, 2001:

Theresa thanks for all of your patience and advice with us. We've written before and are still waiting for the birth of our Two year old maiden mare's first foal. We unknowingly bought her pregnant and the previous owners are totally unable to give us any guesses as to when this initially happened. Our mare has most if not all the classic symptons and we had a vet check her almost 3 weeks ago when he said that she was definitely pregnant and "ready to go" any day now. Three weeks of 2 hours shifts are exhausting. The mares milk comes in, then dries up. We did move her to a new location about a week and 1/2 ago. Perhaps this changed the mares desire to foal???? This time though it seems very different. Perhaps the last times it was just a liquid filling into the udders. This time it is white with larger dried areas on her teats. This MUST finally be true waxing. Her udders are very full and dripping. All other signs are apparent as well. With this in mind, would the waxing which began yesterday be the countdown of 24 to 48 hours to birth? Please? What are your thoughts? Thanks again.

Hi Donna,

I wondered what happened to you. I can't believe that poor girl hasn't foaled yet! I doubt that the move disrupted anything.

Yes, that sounds like true waxing. And I wish I could give you a true countdown, but I can't. Usually, with emphasis on usually, they will foal within three days of waxing. But many mares have gone a whole lot longer than that after waxing. I hope for her sake, and yours, that she gets it done soon! 

Hang in there!

Follow up by Donna on March 25, 2001:

First I want to thank you for even reading this long letter. At this point I don't quite know what to think of all that has happened to us. I've written you before about our situation. We purchased our maiden mare in November from a reputable breeder. Somehow despite a vet check, no one realized she was pregnant. We had her on an extensive exercise program, tried multiple wormings, changed and then reduced her feedings with multiple persons offering advice. No one had a clue to suggest that she was pregnant. Three weeks ago we found out the real cause of her weight gain. Our mare had just turned 2. We moved her from the college campus to a better facility and my daughter has been doing the 1-3 hour checks round the clock for 3 weeks. I know that you can't really offer me vet advice for a horse that you've never seen but I am getting two conflicting pieces of advice and would really like to know which you would do in my position. The questions will be near the end of this email but I think it important you have the detailed event of the trauma our mare went through in delivery to understand how this might affect her future health. This following part of this letter is my 18 year old daughter’s recollection of what happened that night when she and her friend went to check on "Pistol".

Thursday her bag filled completely and she started to wax over, then Friday she started to drip milk. She seemed like she felt fine. At 7:30 I went to check her after my classes. She seemed fine, not like there was anything wrong at all, but I knew she would have it that night, so I kept her stall clean and her tail wrapped. I went home showered, ate, met Eric and came back at 10:30. When we got there she was standing up against the back wall soaking wet, she had knocked over her full water trough. So her stall was soaked too. She was holding her tail real high then she moved a little and I could see that the foal's head was completely out of Pistol's vulva but the foals legs were still inside Pistol. Before anything I ran out of the stall and called the vet. By the time I walked back to her stall she was laying down with her butt right against the wall. Eric and I tried to get her to stand up and walk around in hopes the foal would slip back down in Pistol and reposition but I knew that was a slim chance, since when we found her she was up but the head did not budge. Pistol moaned a lot, and turned on her back with her legs up on the wall as if she was using the wall to try and push the baby out. We kept trying to get her up, and she tried too but she was so weak. Every time she tried she would fall down and she slammed down hard! She kept slamming her head real hard, I tried to pad under her head with a lot of straw so that it wouldn't hurt her. She eventually gave up trying to get up and just lay there. We couldn't get her to move. She moaned a lot.

The vet got there and we put her halter on, tied up her legs and tried to flip her over, so maybe she would have a little more strength or room to get up from that side. I didn’t think we'd get her up. We all said that if we couldn't, we knew she'd die. The vet said that if we didn't get her up and get the baby out we would lose her. We were all very scared. Finally we got her up but she was really weak and fell. We tried again as hard as we could and got her up again, she fell several times halfway but we all tried and got her up again. Eric used his body kind of as a crutch to hold her up. The vet pushed the baby back to get to her legs. It took at least 10 minutes to get her first leg out, because they were bent back and her joints were tight. Pistol threw her head a few times, you could tell she was in a lot of pain. You could hear the gurgling and everything moving around inside of her while he tried to pull the legs out. Finally he got both legs out, but the baby wouldn't come out. I pulled her forward while the two men each holding one foal's leg each pulled with all their strength. When the foal came out, it had no pulse. We took the foal out so that Pistol would not be further traumatized. The vet gave Pistol Penicillin and examined her. He didn't feel that her uterus was ruptured and said we came really close to losing her.

The vet gave her a shot to make her uterus contract. Pistol's coloring came back, her pulse was again strong, and everything was good. At 3:30 she was standing up and a small part of the afterbirth had come out. The vet said to call him at 6am. I did, and he came back out to check her. He have her another shot to make her uterus contract as the rest of the afterbirth had not come out. Then he gave her sort of an enema through a tube. The afterbirth then came out. He gave Pistol a pain killer. She had horrible cramps and lay there moaning. Later that day Pistol was standing with her head very low. She ate a small amount. I washed her of all the blood and sweat and cleaned her stall thoroughly. She seems a little better now.

Theresa, this is what happened. And this is what is going on now which will lead to my questions for you. The breeder that we bought Pistol from called to ask how she was doing. After hearing our story he suggested that 2-3 days after the above event to have a uterine culture run on her to be certain that all infection is taken care of. Surprised that the vet hadn't suggested it he jumped in and said that if the vet wasn't willing to do it that I should right away take her to a specialty equine vet in Reno. Spare no time! (I didn't suggest that the vet wouldn't do it. I have a GREAT deal of respect for how wonderful this vet has been. He is a large animal vet and is respected in the community, has delivered and cared for many horses. But no, he's not an equine specialist. The closest one is in Reno, one and 1/2 hours away. We don't own a trailer.) The vet had checked the horse when we first bought her in Nov. and three times now during the last 3 weeks. He is very flexible with coming out, giving you his time and is out front in his opinion. We like him. And can you believe it for him many hours of time, dedication and patience his bill for all of this less than $300.00? I am astounded. He's clearly doing it for the love of animals.

I called the vet to schedule the culture. He says that we should culture her but wait until the mare is in heat for the second time (approx. one month from now). He said that testing prior to that is unnecessary for 2 reasons.

#1. Nothing in the death of the foal leads us to think that she had an infection. From what he saw he tends to believe that the foal had a knee deformity that kept her from bending her legs forward to properly align in the birth canal. I asked wouldn't it be difficult to determine it was a birth problem as the knees would be messed up from two men pulling on her legs.(I made it clear that I understood the foal was probably already dead, and if not was not salvageable at that point with the risk of losing both animals) Also might the foal have already died and rigor mortis have set into the legs. He said no to both things. He felt it was apparent before they had to pull the foal that she was not able to flex her joints forward. Otherwise he said the baby was a beautiful healthy baby despite us having underfed the Mom, not knowing of her pregnancy of course.

#2 He had already given her Penicillin which would help in her not getting an infection but would also possibly mask test results that we might take too soon.

I believe that both parties....the previous breeder and the vet have Pistol's best interest at heart but I am afraid of making the wrong move. Do you have an thoughts? Could you evaluate what this all says to you? Was this a delivery that "might" happen to 10% of the population or was in the one in a thousand variety? We are very sad for the loss of the foal but so thankful to have saved Pistol. She still isn't quite herself but she's eating and doing alright. Do you see any long-term issues here? Should we have done an autopsy to determine what happened? Or is it pretty clear to you that this was just poor prenatal care (unknowingly of course) that caused a birth defect and therefore a horrible birth?? Was it that Pistol was only 2 when she delivered? Would she most likely have normal future foals and deliveries or might this be a warning to us? And of course....would you culture now? Of course this means renting and moving a traumatized horse for an hour and 1/2. Would you watch her and check her a month from now?

For being first time horse owners, I think my daughter now has more experience than many have in years of horse ownership. I thank the lord that Pam's friend Eric (who has delivered several foals) and the vet came to her rescue. Clearly together they made miracles happen. I would just like to think that we would learn as much from this as possible. I'm not sure that Pam will ever get over what she witnessed to be able to breed Pistol after this. But perhaps her fears will one day soften with knowledge as to why this happened. Any thoughts and advice you can offer would be very appreciated. Thanks ever so much in advance.

Dear Donna,

I'm so very, very sorry to hear about the loss of the foal and the trauma to poor Pistol and your daughter.

First, let me assure you that this isn't a 10% kind of thing. The odds that this would happen are less than that. My feeling is that the vet is right--that the foal's legs wouldn't straighten in order for her to be delivered properly. I also think that this may well have been due to Pistol's age. Her uterus and body just weren't developed enough to give the foal the room it needed. It would not have happened because of your not knowing she was pregnant. Foals are like parasites--they take what they need whether the mare has it to give or not. So as long as Pistol was in good flesh during the pregnancy, the foal wasn't harmed.

Second, the vet gave Pistol penicillin and infused her uterus. That's proper procedure for what she went through. I would agree with the vet and wait until at least until the foal heat to culture her. Waiting until the 30-day heat would be fine. The exception would be if Pistol shows a thick, mucousy vaginal discharge. If that should occur, she may have an infection and the vet should be made aware of it. Other than that, time and loving care will be all she needs to heal. This vet sounds caring and concerned. I'd stick with him.

I don't think an autopsy was at all called for. It seems to me to be fairly well clear-cut that this is one of those unfortunate events that happen when babies have babies. If the vet says that everything checks out okay reproductively with Pistol, then I wouldn't expect there to be any problems if you should decide to breed her in a few years. I don't think this is an indication of what will happen when she is mature and ready to be a mother. I would expect everything to be fine.

Please don't beat yourself up about this. You didn't breed a yearling. All you did was try to cope with the situation. And thank goodness for you, your daughter, her friend, and the vet. I know how heartbreaking the whole thing has been, but you should take comfort in the fact that you did your best and Pistol came through. The people I would question are the ones who somehow allowed a yearling to be bred. That is at best poor management and at worst, totally negligent.

Please give Pistol a hug for me and you and your daughter take care.

Follow up by Donna on April 3, 2001:

I've written you before when we were awaiting the birth of our foal. We have the just turned 2 year old mare. We bought her in Nov. 2000 and didn't know she was pregnant until abut 3-4 weeks before delivering. No wonder we had her on a diet thinking she was fat. She gets a lot of basic exercise but nothing aggressive. She's in a colt training program at college andhas never been ridden. As we thought she was overweight we reduced her feed. She's not had any grain from us...only hay until the last month.

I wrote you telling about the horrific birth where we almost lost our mare. Now I am writing as the farrier came out to trim her feet and said that she has foundered in three feet and that it could be because she had a retained placenta. The vet had to give her drugs to start contractions twice. He also gave her Penicillin and an antibiotic uterine rinse. Could this really be a result of the birth? What could we or anyone have done to make it different? We have given her all her shots since owning her, careful to ask what she had had and not from the previous breeder.

We did not bargain for a pregnant horse. We almost lost her, and are heartbroken at all that has happened. Please help me understand any correlation this might have to the birth so that I may understand. We have an appointment to have the vet examine her and x-ray her. I previously sent you the account of the horrible birth a couple weeks ago. Thanks for any help, first time horse owners :(

Dear Donna,

Yes, it is absolutely possible for a mare to founder due to a retained placenta. The founder is caused by toxin release. It is the main reason why a mare with a retained placenta needs immediate treatment. But, your vet acted appropriately so she shouldn't have foundered from the retained placenta. Horses have also been known to founder from trauma. If she has foundered, just the whole ordeal could have caused it and there was nothing you or anyone else could have done about it. It's good that the vet is going to x-ray her feet. That will tell you what changes have occurred in her feet, if any, and how much of a problem it will be for her.

Rest assured that you have done everything possible to take care of this mare. You handled a very difficult situation in the best way it could have been handled. Thank goodness the filly had you! Please let us know what you find out.

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Submitted by Dawn in Texas on March 3, 2001:

Thank you so much for all of your invaluable information! There are so many horse people who tend to not want to 'share' their 'secrets'! We have your book, and also enjoy your column!

We bought a TWH maiden mare in foal last summer. Our land is 12 miles from the house we live in (until next summer), so we decided to have her foaled at a ranch our vet recommended ($400 + $10/day mare care!) -This is our fist baby that we didn't 'buy'.

I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to give a foal the IgG test for antibodies received from the mare's milk/colostrum! Let me explain: She foaled last Sunday night/Monday morning around 3 am. Around 9 am, they gave the baby the IgG test, and it was low (below 400). The vet came out and tubed the baby with colostrum into his stomach. They tested him again the next morning, and there wasn't much improvement (just barely above 400). The vet ordered blood from where he does, overnighted from out-of-state. We had mother and baby transported to the vet clinic, and they gave him the transfusion when it arrived the next morning. He's going to be okay!

**Here's my point: He always looked healthy! He was energetic from the very beginning! Bright eyed, and bushy tailed! He ran around, kicked his heels up, nursed, wore himself out, lay down, got back up...you get the idea! If he hadn't gotten the IgG test, we would've never known, and probably would've lost him! I went to a Mare & Foal Management Workshop at Texas A&M this week. They explained that the baby's stomach lining is 'open' to absorb the colostrum for just 24 hours. In his case, he didn't absorb it when the vet tubed the colostrum into his stomach when he was 11 hours old. **If the test isn't given in the first 24 hours, and the count isn't up to 800+, the blood transfusion needs to be administered, which costs a lot more ($300+ in our case)...worth every penny, but at least we still have him!

Dear Dawn,

Thanks for sharing your story! And yes, it is important to have the foal's IgG level tested, since that's the only way to know for sure what's going on. I'm very happy that your baby is doing well. Enjoy!

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Submitted by Sue in Arkansas on March 4, 2001:

I was so delighted to find your site tonight. I have three mares that are due to foal the last of this month (March). I have had one other experience with foaling and it turned out beautifully, my two year old gelding is a doll. At the time of his arrival I did not own other horses, but this time there is two other mares - mom-(15) and daughter(3)she is an extremely protective mom, the gelding and the three broodmares. My question is do I stall these broodmares or just separate them from the others, most vets in the area discourage birthing stalls. My stalls are 14x10, my concern is their size. I am getting so anxious, and want to make the best decisions for my mares. please help? I love your column, you are so patient....

Dear Sue,

As you said, the broodmares should be separated from the others. What you do after that is just a matter of opinion. Many people do either successfully. My preference is to have pregnant mares in stalls at night. The biggest reason is that if something goes wrong (heaven forbid!), you are in a place with lights that is easily accessible to the vet. Your stalls being 14x10 isn't that big a problem. The 10 side is a little small, but not that bad. And since I assume you'll be watching these mares to attend their deliveries, you can keep them from foaling against walls. That said, a lot of people let their mares foal outside with the herd and do so without problems. It depends on weather conditions, fencing, etc. So, I guess the bottom line is that you have to do what you feel comfortable with.

Hope this helps.

Follow up by Sue on March 22, 2001:

Hello again, I sent a message to you a few weeks ago. I was concerned about my 3 mares who were due to foal anytime and seperating them from their other pasture buddies. I have read every single question that is posted, and they have answered my questions. I can just imagine just how busy you are right now. I have one down and two to go, mare and colt are doing great! I used my gut instinct and separated each mare as she became ready to foal, and 2 days later she is very capable of taking care of her newborn. All of my mares are maiden and it amazes me that they are so wonderful with their babies, and know just what to do at all times. God knew what he was doing when he created these wonderful creatures that we get to enjoy! Thanks so much for all the wonderful advice and don't bother e-mailing me and think I already know exactly what you would advice after reading every single question you have posted. I am ordering your book and will recommend your web-site to many friends. I would love to have a career that centered around my passion "horses" God Bless, and keep up the good work!!!!

Dear Sue,

Thanks so much for your kind words! Does my old heart good! I'm so glad everything went well with the first mare and baby. And yes, mares are amazing creatures. They never cease to amaze me. I hope the other two go as well. Please let us know!

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Submitted by Kim in Alberta, Canada on March 4, 2001:

Good morning Theresa, no questions at this time I just want to tell you how invaluable your column is to us worry wart Mare midwives. I am expecting my first foal in 20 years from a lovely mare that I have. She is over by a week now and we are watching her pretty closely. She is bagging up nicely for a maiden mare, and as I said we are keeping a very close eye on her. I thank you very much for your wonderful, easy to understand advice, and wish you lived close to us!! Best wishes.

Dear Kim,

What a wonderful letter! You made my day! I hope everything goes very smoothly with your mare's delivery. Please do let us know when she foals.

Thanks again for your kind words.

Follow up by Kim on March 18, 2001:

Hi Theresa, just an update. After being close to three weeks overdue, very heavy, bagged to the max, and myself being very worried, Lace finally blessed us with her first foal. Totally unassisted. She is a fabulous mother, who wouldn't attempt to stand until I moved her foal's leg out from underneath her back leg, and then talked to the babe constantly, while letting me work around her to remove the last of the afterbirth from the foal's hips, and tidy the stall a little so the little critter could have better grip to stand up. Hopefully all goes well from here. The filly has suckled and I am going out soon to ensure the meconium is passed, and that all is well, then I am going to try to sleep, which as we all know is a precious commodity this time of year!! The filly is a half Arab/half paint, mostly white with a bay head, chest, left flank and two smudge marks on either side of her tail, but her tail is white, I wish that I had a digital camera!! Or a scanner!! Or something. What a feeling, to hear mother and daughter talk to each other, and to watch Lace guide the babe to the grub!! Wow!! Worth all the wait and wondering. Thank you again for your column and to The Horse Forum for providing this vault of info!!! Best wishes.

Dear Kim,

Wonderful news! It's great to hear how well everything went! And the filly sounds absolutely darling. Get some sleep, then enjoy your new baby!

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Submitted by Rebecca in Ontario, Canada on March 4, 2001:

I hope that you can give me some answers. On Thursday night my father-in-law's mare gave birth to her fourth foal but she still had approximately one and a half months to go in her pregnancy. When the foal was removed from the barn it had a strong odour to it as if maybe it had been dead inside the mare for a while. Nothing in the mare’s daily schedule had been changed nor had her feed. Can you give me any reasons as to why she may have lost her foal so far along in the pregnancy. The mare is also very stiff and sore and does not want to move around at all. She is torn a little. The mare has been given two shots of penicillin for infection and she is being bathed each day as well as being rubbed with horse liniment. Could you let me know what else we can possibly do for her. Thanking you in advance for any information.

Dear Rebecca,

I'm so very sorry about the loss of the foal! Late term abortions can occur for many reasons--twisted umbilical cord, some genetic defect with the foal, etc. Sometimes you just never know why. Since it appeared that the foal had been dead for a while, and especially considering your description of the mare's condition, it is of utmost importance to be sure the mare is treated properly. Her uterus should absolutely be checked by a vet and she should have at least one, and probably several uterine infusions. Also, you said she'd had two injections of penicillin. I hope that isn't all. Two injections isn't enough to help if the mare has a uterine infection from carrying foal that may have been decomposing. I can't stress enough how important proper veterinary care is for this mare.

Again, I'm very sorry about the foal.

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Submitted by Darcy in Ohio on March 6, 2001:

I have an eleven year old quarter horse mare. I believe this is her first. She was ultrasounded at 18 days and her estimated due date is March 20. She has waxed up. Baby has dropped into position and the croup is soft and sagging. I am a little concerned that it is too early for these signs. How many days does a mare generally wax prior to delivery ?

Dear Darcy,

The average amount of time that a mare waxes before foaling is 2-3 days, but it can be as short as a few hours or as long as a month. However, if your mare is due March 20th, then there is nothing to be concerned about as far as the foal being too early. It is already within a safe range. So don't worry. Just keep a watch on the mare and look forward to seeing that new baby!

Let us know when she foals.

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Submitted by Megan in Michigan on March 6, 2001:

Hi, I found your web.site and it is great. I can sit for hours and read all the advice but I have a question for you. I have a 14 yr. paint mare that I bought and was told that she might have been bred a few days before I bought her. She was in with a stallion in a pasture. Well after I had her about three mo. I had her ultrasounded, and the vet told me that was no baby. About 7 mo. later she was putting on weight so I called a different vet and he palpated her and said she was pregnant. All has gone well, and he said she was very healthy. The first vet felt something when her palpated her, so that is why he ultrasounded her, said that it was not an infection, guess she fooled him. But now my question. The closest we could figure to her due date was feb.23, but we still have no foal. She is bagging up and is relaxed in the rear end. The other day she laid down and didn't get up, was grunting and clear fluid was passed, not a lot but some, also she had a soft stool. I thought she was in labor but after a while she got up and nothing more. I bought a monitor so I can keep watch all the time, but I couldn't get any milk from her teats. I was told that she had a foal before, but not from the women I got her from, so I am not really sure and she could be a maiden. She had infections before and was treated and flushed by other owner's vet. She checked clear for any more infection and then I bought her. Can you express milk from all mares before they are ready, and should I worry about her false labor? How long should I wait for this foal before I get real nervous? I hope you can answer as soon as possible before I go crazy. Thanks a lot.

Dear Megan,

Not all mares produce milk before foaling and many start producing it only at the very last moment. I would not be worried about what you describe as "false labor", she was probably just uncomfortable. I would also not be concerned for a couple more weeks since it is not unusual for some mares to go as long as one year. It's really impossible for me to predict a foaling date for you. From your description, it sounds like it could be any day. The udder can change drastically in a few hours, especially since she's already made so many other changes. All you can do is keep doing what you've been doing--keep a close watch on her progress and stay with her when you think she's getting close.

Best of luck, and please let us know when she foals.

Follow up by Megan on March 17, 2001:

Hi Theresa, I e-mailed you about 1 week ago about my mare who laid down and pushed and some fluid came out and I thought that she was having her baby, but then she just got up and went on eating. You said that you thought that she was just uncomfortable, well that helped me to calm down and not worry so much, but you know how it is when you are wanting and she is overdue. Well just wanted to let you know that March 16, she foaled a little filly and all went real smooth. Water broke at 10:57 pm and the foal was born at 11:00 PM. By 11:36 PM my filly was up trotting around the stall, had eaten, and pooped. The mare was eating hay and seemed happy. The only thing that I was worried about was my mare didn't stay down and got up right away and the cord broke. It was a clean break and no bleeding occurred, so all was fine. Mare and Foal are healthy and doing well, we imprinted the foal today and now she comes right up to you and isn't afraid at all. Well, thanks a lot for the info. and your column, it sure helped a lot to let me know what to look for (p.s. she was at 362 days)

Dear Meg,

Great news! I'm so happy everything went smoothly after all that worrying! We all worry, but it's worth it, isn't it?! Thanks for letting us know about your new filly. I know you'll have a great time with her!

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Submitted by Denise in Hawaii on March 8, 2001:

Aloha. I have an 18 year old American Saddlebred who is now at day 346. She has dropped, has swollen utters although the milk is still very clear. Her vulva seems to relax and then return to a normal state. Everything seems very normal and partuation getting nearer. My question is, in your experience have you noticed that more foals are born under a full moon. I know that it affects humans, both my children were born during a full moon. Tomorrow is a full moon and perhaps it is just my wishful and sleepless thinking. P.S. Because we live in a very rural area, we must rely upon ourselves more, I administer all my horses vaccinations. I have 2 10cc injections of oxytocin on hand should the mare retain the placenta. Because she is an older mare with one previous unsuccessful foaling (6 weeks premature, believed to have been caused by an infection passed by the stud, 3 of his babies all died in one season) could this drug also help her during the second stage of labor? I know not to give it to her until the water breaks and until I see proper positioning of the foal.

Dear Denise,

I really haven't noticed a correlation between full moons and mares foaling. Others say they have, but I haven't.

About the oxytocin. First, I have never known of a mare to need oxytocin during delivery and it should absolutely not be given in that circumstance except under the direct supervision of a vet. Also, NEVER, NEVER give 10cc of oxytocin in one injection. That is way too much at one time and could cause uterine prolapse. If the mare should retain the placenta for longer than three hours, giving 1-2cc per hour for a few hours is plenty.

I hope this helps.

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Submitted by Kirsty in Atrim, Ireland on March 8, 2001:

My tb mare has approximately 5 weeks remaining of her first pregnancy...we are concerned due to her small size in comparison to other mares. we have seen the foal "kick" though. Are first time mares often small, and could it be that her highly active nature could be preventing her from putting on much weight? She has always walked in the box and walks continually when out on grass.

Dear Kirsty,

It is quite normal for maiden mares not to show as much as mares who have had foals before. They haven't been stretched out before, and especially an active mare with good muscle tone can pack a lot of foal in there and make it look small. So, I wouldn't be at all concerned about her belly size.

Hope this helps.

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Submitted by Addie in Kansa on March 9, 2001:

I have a mare that is in foal and due March 29th with her first foal. She started showing signs about 2 weeks ago. Her bag started enlarging and her vulva started to look bigger. But now her bag has gone back down. Is this a sign of trouble or can this be normal? I have been told that with maiden mares they will show signs and then not show signs. Please help. Thanks,

Dear Addie,