Advice Column  9/97 - 1998

Submitted by Anonymous on September 15, 1997:

Our quarter horse mare had her second colt this summer and again it died within a matter of two days.

The first colt, born last year, was doing fine and appeared to be nursing when after coming in from work we found him down and weak. We were able to milk the mare and tryed feeding the colt with a bottle but he only lasted a few hours. The vet told us that the colt was probably a "dummy" colt(a colt born without the sucking reflex caused by some trauma during birth).

This time within a few hours of birth the colt was in apparent pain because he would moan and roll. We called a vet out to the farm this time. The vet was very thorough. He catherized him, gave him an enema, fed him the mares milk along with electrolites by a stomach tube and gave him a shot for pain. After doing all of this he still could not give us a diagnosis. The next morning he was better and we thought we had saved him. By that afternoon the poor little thing was back down thrashing in pain and didn't last but a couple of hours.

This mare was bred to the same stud both times but there has been a healthy colt born by him out of another mare so we assume it is not something passed on by the stud. It is apparently something wrong with the mare. My question is: What can be done to pin-point the cause of this defect? We do not want to put our mare or our family through this heartbreaking ordeal again.

Dear Anonymous:

I am so sorry for your losses. It would be very difficult to know what the problem was with the first colt since it sounds like there was a period of time that he was not observed. Your vet could be right about the colt being a dummy, or there could have been a problem with failure of passive transfer of antibodies from the mare's colostrum to the foal. It could also have been a case of the colt just not being quite strong enough to nurse without a little help. Foals are born without much energy reserve and fade very quickly without proper nourishment. Once they get to that point, it can be difficult to bring them back.

It sounds as though the second colt had a definite problem. It could have been any number of things that would be impossible to diagnose without a postmortem examination--a meconium impaction, a twisted or "telescoped" bowel, missing gut, neonatal isoerythrolysis, etc.

Without more information it is impossible to tell if the problems with the two colts were related. It is entirely possible that you have had a run of bad luck and that future foals will be perfectly fine. However, to cover all bases, there are some things you can do to try to eliminate or deal effectively with any future problems. It would probably be best not to breed the mare back to the same stallion. That is a variable that is easy to eliminate. If at all possible, the delivery should be attended. That is the only way to know if it was normal or not. When the foal is born, it should be checked by your veterinarian as soon as possible. The vet can check the mare's colostrum against the foal's blood to make sure there is not a problem with neonatal isoerythrolysis (an incompatibility between the mare and stallion's blood types). The mare's colostrum can also be checked to be sure she is passing on sufficient antibodies to the foal. The foal's blood can be checked, after several hours of nursing, to be sure he has absorbed the antibodies from the colostrum properly.

Unfortunately, no one can promise you that everything will be okay the next time. You face a difficult decision about whether to breed this mare again or not. With the help of your vet, though, I think there is a very good chance that you can have a good experience the next time.

I hope this information has helped.

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Submitted by Barbara in Canada on November 8, 1997:

I have a maiden Quarter Horse Mare that is due to Foal in March 98. She is ticklish in the flank area when I brush her and switches her tail and threatens to kick when I attempt to clean her teats. I am worried that if this mare foals when I am not around that she may kick her foal or harm him/her. Although when I brush her a lot she becomes less sensitive, she has not totally overcome sensitivity on her udder. Are my fears warranted? She is otherwise fairly non-aggressive and easy going. This season she was pastured with an orphan foal who gained some security from her company. She was so tolerant of him that she would let him suck on her fatty elbow as a soother! Have you got any ideas on a program that I can use to desensitize her? Thanks

Hi Barbara,

I understand your concern, and although all mares are different, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Many mares, even mares that have had many foals, are touchy about their udders until the foal is born. At that point, their maternal instinct kicks in and they let the foal nurse much more easily than they allow you to touch them. If you aren't there for the delivery, there probably still isn't reason to be terribly concerned. Even if a maiden won't let her foal nurse, she will usually just walk away and not harm the foal. You may have to hold her still for the foal the first couple of times, but she should be fine after that. Some maidens take to it like they are old pros and if your mare did that well with the orphan foal, I expect she'll do great with her own.

Just keep doing what you're doing--working with her slowly. There isn't any reason to push it and really upset her. Mother Nature usually takes care of it.

Please let me know how it goes when she foals.

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Submitted by Charity in the USA on November 24, 1997:

I have always loved horses and I was taking riding lessons until about 2 months ago when I got my own horse! A Paint Mare Quarter Horse. The guy we bought her from didn't know for sure but said there was a chance she was bred. About a month ago we took her to the vet to get her checked! We found out she was bred and is going to have a foal between now and the end of December! I have never had a horse before so I don't know what to do when she does have a foal and how to tell when she gets close. I have read a few books I got from the Library about horses but they didn't say much about foaling. I was wondering if you could help me? I have been going out and checking on her to see if see has started to get any milk. Yesterday I went out to check on her and she had something clear coming out of her teats. Is that the Colostrum? If this is the Colostrum how long after she starts to get it will she probably foal? And how do I know when she gets close to foaling? I have her in a stall about 12X12 and I am using straw for bedding. I have heard that you should use at least a foot deep of straw. Is this true? Any Information and Advice you could give me I would appreciate it very much. Thank You

Hi Charity,

I'm sure you must be looking forward to the arrival of the new foal! The questions you asked cover a lot of territory and I can only give you a brief summary here. The best advice I can give you is to go right away to a tack store or book store and see if they have any books on foaling. Obviously I would recommend mine first, but if you can't find it, "Blessed are the Broodmares" is a very good book. You might try calling Equine Research at 800-848-0225 and see if they can send a copy of mine by overnight delivery.

The reason for the urgency is this: I assume you didn't milk the mare by hand, that the clear liquid you saw on your mare's teats came out on its own. If so, it is wax and means that the mare will likely foal within the next few days. Other things to look for are softening of muscles over her hips and around her tailhead and relaxation and lengthening of her vulva. Also, her belly may drop--she'll get a dip behind her breastbone and her belly will look fuller in front of her stifles. Her behavior may also change--rubbing her rear end, swishing her tail, biting at her sides, maybe off feed a little. If you see these changes, she is close to foaling. The clear liquid you're seeing is the beginning of colostrum and will probably change from that to cloudy to yellowish white. When it turns white and/or starts dripping from her udder, watch out. She could foal at any time.

It's great that you have the mare on straw. A foot deep is okay, but after the foal is born, be careful not to bed too deeply until it is steady on its feet. It’s hard for a newborn to stand up if it has to wade through too much straw. You can add more bedding when the foal is up and steady.

I wish you a wonderful experience with your new mare and foal. If you feel uneasy about the delivery or anything that happens with the mare or foal after delivery, contact your veterinarian immediately. Please let me know how it goes.

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Submitted by Sandy in the USA on November 26, 1997:

I have a 10 year old Rocky Mtn. mare. I purchased her back in the summer and tried to breed her. She was with the stud for five weeks and would never breed. Everytime she was put with the stud she just about tore the barn down. She is very large in her abdomen now and has a yellowish colored milk, her tits feel waxy, and she is very hateful with my gelding. In the past week or so I have caught her laying down and very down headed. She pins her ears back at me at times, which is something she never does. Sometimes I can see her abdomen "knot and tighten up." Everything I read tells me that she is already with foal. I've had a hard time getting a vet out to check her. Can you tell me if it sounds as if she is pregnant and what signs should I look for before birthing is near?

Hi Sandy,

It sure sounds like your mare could be pregnant. You said you were having trouble getting the vet out, but keep trying. That's the best way to know for sure.

A few signs of impending delivery are loosening of muscles over the hindquarters, relaxation of the vulva, dropping belly, sometimes wax. Have you been milking the yellowish fluid out of her? If you see it on the ends of her nipples without milking her, that's wax. She could also drip or stream milk shortly before delivery. You said she's been grumpy lately. If she gets friendly again, that could be a behavior change to indicate imminent delivery. Also, watch for her to rub her rear end on things, swish her tail a lot, bite at her sides, kick at her belly. In the last few hours before delivery, she may pace, hold her tail up a lot, paw, sweat, curl her lip, yawn, get up and down. Please remember that a mare may show all of these things or none of them. Most will show at least some of them.

It's best if you can bed the mare on straw. And as I said before, try to get the vet out. That's the only way to be sure.

Good luck and please let me know what happens.

Follow up by Sandy on November 28, 1997:

Thank you for answering my questions. Today, I finally got a vet out to check my mare. Turns out that she is having a FALSE pregnancy. Needless to say, I'm very disappointed. It's so unreal how she can exhibit all of those signs and not be pregnant. Maybe I'll have better luck in the Spring when I try to breed her again. Thanks again.

Dear Sandy,

Thanks for letting me know what the outcome was with your mare. So sorry it turned out the way it did! I'll certainly be keeping my fingers crossed for you in the spring. Keep in touch and good luck.

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Submitted by Cara in the USA on November 30, 1997:

I'm buying a seven year old Arabian that is five months pregnant with her first foal. I've recently started reading about foaling and there is a lot to learn ! One question I would like answered is : How much riding is safe and how late into the pregnancy ? Thank you very much.

Dear Cara,

First, congratulations! You'll have a lot of fun with the new foal.

I think riding a pregnant mare is greatly variable from mare to mare. If she has been ridden regularly, then it's fine to keep riding her since exercise is very important for pregnant mares. For now, I'd just go on with whatever length of time she's used to. As she gets heavier in foal, though, you should cut back on the length of time she is ridden and keep her at a more sedate pace. This is just my personal opinion, but I don't like to see a mare ridden in the last two months of pregnancy. I know some people do it and don't have any problems, but I think at that point it's a lot to ask of a mare to carry a foal and a person. However, exercise is still important. Turnout is best but if you can't do that, then longeing in as big a circle as possible is fine. Really, it's just common sense. Judge by the mare's comfort level and belly size. Do what feels right for you and the mare.

Good luck and please let me know how the delivery goes.

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Submitted by Carla in the USA on December 8, 1997:

I will order the Foaling Manual but in the interim, I have a couple of questions I need answered:

1) Is a 12 x 12 stall box big enough for a foaling mare?
2) What is the hazard of using shavings instead of straw?
3) Ater birth where do you suggest the mare and foal be kept if a 12 x 12 stall box is too small?

Need your advice ASAP. Thanks!

Dear Carla,

To answer your questions in order :

1) Many mares have foaled successfully in 12 x 12 stalls. I prefer a bigger stall, but of course that isn't always possible. The reason I prefer a bigger stall is because of the danger of the mare trying to foal with her rear end against a wall. Most will have no problem and if you can be there to keep your mare off the wall, that should eliminate any problem.

2) I am much more concerned about the type of bedding than the size of the stall. There are several problems with using shavings instead of straw. The first is the danger of infection to the foal. Shavings are more likely to harbor pathologic bacteria than straw. Foals that are born and live on shavings are more likely to develop navel ill, joint ill, and respiratory diseases than those on straw. The next problem is danger of infection to the mare. After foaling, her reproductive tract is wide open and very vulnerable. It's easy for her to suck in particles, dust, and contaminants that are present in shavings. We have found that mares which have foaled on shavings are much more prone to uterine infections than mares that foaled on straw. It's best to make the change back to shavings when the foal's umbilical stump is completely dry, waiting a week to ten days is usually sufficient.

3) I don't have any problem with keeping a mare and foal in a 12 x 12 stall after birth. The barn where I have people take mares for me to foal has 10 x 12 stalls (there is a larger foaling stall). These are big thoroughbred mares and they and their babies have no problems in stalls that size. That should eliminate one problem for you!

Turnout time is still essential, though, no matter what size stall the mare and foal live in.

Hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck. Let us know when your mare foals.

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Submitted by Chris in the USA on December 18, 1997:

I am new at handling foals..and could use some info on imprinting them after birth....

Dear Chris,

Imprinting isn't really my area. Many people use Dr. Robert Miller's book on imprinting. Although I don't do "formal" imprinting, I think it's very important to get your hands on the foal as soon as possible after its born and then to keep handling it daily. I believe consistent handling is the key--touching and brushing the foal all over, running your hands down its legs, picking up its feet.

Hope this helps. Have fun with your foal!

Follow up by Chris on December 20, 1997:

Thanks for the advice, Dr Millers book is excellent.... this morning at 0630 my mare gave me a beautiful colt....both are doing great, and I applied the things Dr Miller describes and it is amazing to me! Good recommendation...again thanks!

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 Submitted by Marge in the USA on January 1, 1998:

What vaccinations should a mare receive prior to being bred and during gestation? Also, what vaccinations are required for a stallion? And finally, should wormers (or a particular type) be avoided during gestation? Thank you.

Dear Marge,

Prior to breeding, mares should receive normal vaccinations--influenza, rhino, tetanus, and E & W encephalitis. Optional are any other vaccines needed in your area--Potomac, strangles, etc. During gestation, a mare needs to have Pneumabort K at 5, 7, and 9 months to prevent viral abortion. Some people also give it at 3 months and that's fine. About six weeks prior to foaling, at least influenza, tetanus, and encephalitis should be given. Any other optional vaccinations can also be given then. However, they should be split and given about a week or so apart. Hitting a mare with too much at once can really stress her.

Stallions should receive the same routine vaccinations as all other horses.

Strongid and Ivermectin are safe for pregnant mares. The vet I work for prefers to give Strongid as the last worming before foaling. Quest is supposed to be safe for pregnant mares, but it is so new that we haven't had much experience with it yet. The foal should receive its first worming at two months. Strongid is best at double the dose for the foal's body weight. NEVER double dose Ivermectin. The foal usually gets its first set of vaccinations at three months, followed by boosters at four and five months. Some vets vary the vaccination routine some and that's fine.

Hope this helps.

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Submitted by Betsy in the USA on January 10, 1998:

I have a 6 y/o maiden TB mare in foal to a Hanoverian stallion, due to foal in July, 1998. This has been my first attempt at breeding/foaling and have learned so much! My vets have been wonderful. We bred her by AI, have had her ultrasounded and it appears that all is well. Her weight is good, temperament is hormonal (ha!) and we're just waiting, now. I've read "Blessed are the Broodmares," and while I am so glad I did, I am absolutely panicked that something will go wrong and a) I won't be there to help; or b) I will be there and I won't know exactly what to do! (Both during foaling and during the first few precious days). At best, it takes the vets nearly an hour to get to my home after paging them. They laugh at me when I tell them I'll start holding a candlelight vigil 30 days before her foaling date. They tell me that if I'm lucky, I'll come home from work one day and momma and baby will be standing looking at me. Here's my questions :

1) I've read so much about sanitation/infection/helping baby initially, etc., what if I'm not there when she foals? Am I not taking a terrible risk with potential naval infection/inability to nurse?

2) I've spent so much money on preparing her to breed, stud fees, insemination fees, subsequent vet care, etc. What's my best course of protecting my investment and giving momma and baby the best chance for success ?

3) Since it takes the vet nearly an hour to reach my home, would it be unreasonable to summon him as soon as I am sure she is foaling, just to make sure I have him there once the baby hits the ground? The vets have told me it is wiser to have them come out 12-24 hours after birth, but I say why not come during/immediately after birth and then again at 12-24 hours ?

Sorry for such a long message, but your advise would be greatly appreciated!

Dear Betsy,

Thanks for writing and I'll answer your questions one at a time.

1) No, there isn't a big risk of navel infection. If the foal is born when you aren't there, just disinfect the navel when you find the foal. It's best if it's done right away but is not a big worry if it isn't. Many foals never have their navels treated at all and have no problems. Nursing may be a bigger problem with a maiden mare. Most maidens do fine, but a few don't understand the nursing business and won't let the foal go back to their udders only because they want that new baby right under their nose. If the foal is found and nurses by the time it is four hours old, there won't be any problem. Even if it is a little older, it should be fine. There is, realistically, a pretty big window of time. We've seen ones that were probably 6-7 hours old when found and hadn't nursed yet. They've all been fine. So, don't worry yourself unnecessarily.

2) Your best chance of protecting your investment is by learning as much as you can. I can tell by your questions that you have done that.

3) When you call the vet is up to you. If you would feel better having him on the way when you know the mare is ready to foal, that is not unreasonable. Your vet's hesitation to come right away is that the season is very busy for vets, a whole night's sleep is a precious commodity, and most foalings go without difficulty. Also, I know from personal experience that there are a lot of false alarms. The vet is probably trying to avoid that, too. That said, you still have the right to call immediately if that makes you feel more comfortable. With the vet so far away, I can understand your concern.

I know the whole deal is terribly nerve-wracking but I'm sure you, your mare, and the foal will do fine. You've prepared yourself the best you can and that's all you can do. You'll know if there's a problem.

Good luck and please let us know how it goes.

Follow up from Betsy on June 3, 1998:

I wrote to you last January about multiple questions and your answers were very helpful. My 6 y/o TB maiden mare is in foal to a Hanoverian stallion and is due July 1st. My vet is coming tomorrow (June 4) to vaccinate her. (we've kept up with all her rhino vaccinations, worming, etc. throughout the pregnancy). I read another piece of advice you gave a "reader" and if I understood correctly, the vet may be coming a week or so late for her vaccinations ! The stallion owner says that the majority of his foals are coming two weeks to 10 days early for the most part (he's 17.2hh and my mare is 15.2hh which the stud owner says might be a contributing factor to an early foaling). Have I waited too late for her final series of vaccinations ? Can I worm her now (it's been about 45-60 days since her last worming). This is my first foal and by the comments from your other readers, I'm not alone in my hysteria! My mare's udder is very swollen and tight, although no wax. There is increasing edema each day on her underline. Her rear end is getting "mushy" and the vulva and rectum seem to be somewhat swollen. She has just started holding her tail mildly elevated. She has also started getting very aggressive toward my other mare (they damn near tore the barn down yesterday and everybody is cut up!). Would you say she is "right on schedule?" Thanks for all the free advice you give. We all appreciate helping us through this nerve-wracking experience! I told my husband last night that this is probably more nerve-wracking that giving birth myself to my first daughter. At least then I knew what I was feeling. Now, I feel like such an innocent by-stander!

Will let you know when baby arrives!

Hi Betsy,

It is nerve-wracking, isn't it !! Believe it or not, it still is for me, too. Every delivery is like the first one because you never know what's coming! And when that new baby nickers for the first time...well, there's just nothing else like it!

The vaccinations need to be given by 30 days before the mare's due date because that gives her system the time it needs to produce the antibodies for her colostrum. I wouldn't worry about it though. Since your mare has been on a good schedule, it will be fine. I think, because of your description of how your mare looks, that you should hold off on the worming. Again, she's been on a good schedule and shouldn't be loaded with parasites. At this point, I just don't think it's necessary to "rock the boat."

Sounds to me like your mare will be early. If they look like they're going to have a big foal, I'm always happy if they foal a week or two early.

Thanks for your kind words about the column. I'm so glad it's helping. Keep a close watch on the mare and let us know when your new baby arrives. Have fun!

Follow up by Betsy on July 7, 1998:

Several months ago, I wrote to you about many fears and apprehensions I had in anticipation of a foal (my first and my mare's first). Your advice was helpful and reassuring. Well, I thought I'd let you know that at 12:01 a.m. on July 6th, I watched in amazement as a large black colt was born. It was a "textbook" delivery (call it beginner's luck?). I thought after reading everything I could get my hands on that I'd be prepared for the experience. In hindsight, I can only say to those other "first-timers" that it is an explosive, adrenaline-rushing event! I was unprepared for how quickly everything happened ! (Her stall-walking started at 9:30 p.m., sweating at 10:30 p.m., her water breaking at 11:40 p.m., and the colt's head and shoulders entering the world at 12:01 a.m.! I know all mares are different, but my own experience was almost gone before I noticed it !

One simple question of you.... what is your feeling about creep feeding foals ? I have a TB mare and the sire was a large Hanoverian. I want the foal to achieve his maximum potential. My vet says that creep feeding is a result of Thoroughbred breeders wanting "super colts" and that I'm asking for joint/leg malformations to occur and that I should let "mom" take care of the foal and begin to feed him at weaning. What's your advise ?

Thanks for everything. I learned so much from this site !

Hi Betsy,

Thanks so much for letting us know about your mare and foal. It is the most wonderful and amazing experience, isn't it ?! I'm so happy it went so well for you ! (and them !)

I'm certainly not the best source for feeding advice, but I'll tell you what experience has shown me. I absolutely agree with your vet. Many, many leg problems are caused by overfeeding young horses. I prefer not to give foals their own grain until they are weaned. They will usually share Mom's grain, and that's fine, but as long everything is normal with Mom and baby, I think it's better not to give the foal its own grain. This opinion comes from observations I made at one large thoroughbred farm. The first manager, for many years, actually tied the mares up so the foals could eat grain from the time they were a couple of months old. Many of the foals had signficant leg problems. The next manager stopped tying the mares up and didn't give the foals extra grain. In fact, at the first sign of epiphysitis, she would tie the foal up while Mom ate to keep the baby away from any grain at all. The foals no longer had leg problems.

There really isn't any reason for you to be concerned about your colt reaching his full genetic potential. He will.

Again, thanks so much for letting us know about your wonderful experience. I'm sure hearing about it makes everyone feel good.

Take care.

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Submitted by Liz in the USA on January 17, 1998:

We have a miniature horse who is due around May 8th and this is our first baby. We have watched numerous videos and read everything we can get our hands on - I must comment that your book is, by far, the most superior that we have read. It was great ( most other books were scaring us to death! ) Thank you for a great book! Have you ever delivered a mini and do you have any mini-tips?! Thank you again for your contribution.

Dear Liz,

Thank you so much for your very kind words ! I tried to make the book as practical and down-to-earth as I could. I tried very hard not to scare anyone, but to give people confidence. Seeing a delivery is such a wonderful experience that I want everyone to enjoy it as much as possible.

I've only attended one miniature mare. She'd had foals before and was very laid back about the whole deal. She gave no warning signs, her milk was still clear, but her body looked ready so I stayed with her. She calmly stood and ate hay all evening. Finally, she made one lap around the stall, lay down, her water broke, and the foal was delivered within a few minutes. It was the cutest thing I ever saw. The owners were disappointed because the foal was "big." I was used to delivering TB babies and couldn't imagine how anyone could think a foal that size was big!

I've heard from other people that miniatures have a slight tendency for the amniotic membrane to be thick and difficult for the foal to break free to breathe. (Don't mean to scare you, just want you to be prepared.) That won't be a problem if you're there for the delivery. The one I delivered didn't have a thick membrane and would have been fine on its own.

Please let us know when the foal is born.

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Submitted by Billie Jo in the USA on January 26, 1998:

I have a Red Sonny Dee Bar mare that is due to foal around Feb. 8 She has been Waxing for two days and she has a lot of swelling in the hind legs. She acts like she is in labor and then stops. Should I be concerned about any of this?

Hi Billie Jo,

No, I don't see any reason for you to be concerned. She's within a safe range to foal, some will wax for quite a few days, and the swelling in her hind legs will subside soon after she foals. I'm sure she's very uncomfortable and that's why she's acting like she's in labor. It is possible for them to be in the first stage of labor off and on for a couple of days. Sometimes, they'll just drive you crazy! However, you can see her and I can't. If you're really worried or if she doesn't foal in the next few days, it would certainly be acceptable to have the vet take a look at her.

Hang in there and let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Tammi in the USA on January 28, 1998:

I am so happy that I found out about you! I have a maiden mare that is due to foal in about a week. I am so nervous ! I have been told that with maiden mares they don't always wax or bag up before foaling. Is this true? I think she is getting close although her bag is not real big. Her belly is dropped and her hip bones look different. I am very nervous because last year we lost a mare and foal. Just a freak thing our vet said. Needless to say we were very upset. I just want a happy foaling this time. Do you think she is getting close? Thank you for your time.

Hi Tammi,

Yes, it's true that sometimes maidens don't get very big udders before they foal. Usually, you can tell they are tight and full for their size. Many maidens will wax or drip milk even though their udders are small, but some won't. If her belly is dropping and her hip bones becoming prominent, she's probably getting close.

So sorry to hear about your loss last year. I'm sure you're due for some better luck this time! We'll keep our fingers crossed for you. Please let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Jan in the USA on February 4, 1998:

I have a QH mare that has had 3 heathly foals and normal pregnancies. This year her progesterone levels have been so low that she has remained on Regumate ever since she was bred. She is due to foal the first week of March and has not started to bag up yet. With the previous pregnancies, she bagged early, around 6 weeks before delivery. I know I have 30 days to go, but I am getting concerned. Should I remove her from the regumate now? Her progesterone level was only 2.8 at 250 days. With Veterinary consults involved, they recommended keeping her on the regumate until close to delivery. Could the regumate be delaying the udder development ? I don't want to jeopardize the foal in an early delivery. Have you had any experience such as this? Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Dear Jan,

I don't have extensive experience with mares who have to be on Regumate for the whole pregnancy. This is what I've seen with those few: They did bag up. However, it is conceivable that the Regumate could delay that. The vet I work for recommends taking them off Regumate 2-3 weeks before their due dates. Most will foal 1-2 weeks after the last dose, so taking them off at 2-3 weeks should still result in a foal that is ready to be born. Even if they foal within a few days of being taken off, it should still be okay.

In answer to your questions--I wouldn't take her off the Regumate for at least another week, two is probably better. I wouldn't worry that she hasn't bagged up yet. Even though she bagged early with the other pregnancies, this one could be different. Also, if the Regumate is causing a delay in udder development, she'll probably bag up fairly quickly when the Regumate has been stopped.

I hope this helps. Please let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Klarissa in the USA on February 9, 1998:

I'm 13 and I have your book, I LOVE IT!!! I plan to breed my mare (this would be her first) this spring. The book probably has the answers to the questions I have but it might not be plain enough for me to see.

1) How soon after foaling can the mare and foal be loaded in a trailer and be moved (we don't have a barn and we plan to keep the mare at my aunts place for foaling ?
2) If I'm not there and the placenta isn't tied up what will happen???
3) My mare is a very sensitive TB (like the usual TBs) and kind of freaky (you know scared of just about everything, is it common for them to be frightened of the foal ?
4) What are the chances of a redbag delivery?
Thanx

Hi Klarissa,

I'm so glad you like the book. I'd be happy to answer your questions.

1) I like foals to be at least a week old before they're moved, and that's provided everything has been normal and the foal is strong and healthy.
2) If you can't be there to tie the placenta up, it will probably be fine. It is tied up to keep the mare from stepping on it and causing damage to her uterus. It's the best thing to do, but realistically, mares have been foaling for many, many years without having the membranes tied up.
3) A great deal of my experience has been with TB mares. Most of them do just fine even if they are freaky. Somehow, Mother Nature usually kicks in. The worst thing most of them do is not stand for the foal to nurse. It isn't that they're trying to be bad, it's that they don't understand the nursing deal and want the foal right under their noses. If you just hold her still, it should be fine.
4) The chance of a red bag delivery is slim. No one can tell you it won't happen, but the odds are greatly on your side.

Let us know when your mare gets in foal.

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Submitted by Barbara in the USA on February 10, 1998:

I have a maiden 10 year old Palomino Quarter Horse mare that is due in late July. I consider this to be a pretty late foaling date. I live in West Virginia where we have a mixture of pasture grasses, but a lot of fescue also. My horses are kept turned out except for extreme cold. Since she is not foaling until July, she will be out on the lush spring pastures, and summer pastures, of most likely endophyte-infested fescue along with some other grasses. I am told that the endophyte-infested fescue is indicative of my region. I have read articles about the fescue causing late-term abortions and other problems.

My question is this: Should I stall my mare for at least 6 weeks before she's due, or longer? She won't be happy being in for that long, but it will give me more peace of mind knowing that I can do something to protect my investment! Should I be concerned about this? Thanks for listening! I look forward to your reply.

Hi Barbara,

Yes, if your area is endemic with endophyte-infested fescue, I'd certainly keep your mare off pasture for at least 60 days before her due date. The risk just isn't worth it. Since you have some time, you might check with your county extension office. They might be able to test your pastures to find out for sure if you have a problem.

Is there any way you could maybe fence off a small area so that she could have some time outside? If you did it ahead of time, she'd probably have it eaten down to a "dry lot" by the time she'd need to be off pasture. Just a suggestion...I know how they dislike being in and I don't like for them to be in that much, either.

Hope this helps.

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Submitted by Jill in the USA on February 14, 1998:

I, as several of the questions before from other people, am new to horse breeding. I wanted to let you know that you do a wonderful job in explaining things so that we can understand exactly what you are saying. My question to you is I read all the material that I can get my hands on and some people say that it is not important to have your mare checked out by a vet. to make sure that the reproductive organs are ok. We have 2 mares, one of them is a maiden mare. The other has had a few foals in the past, but last year the mare miscarried. I wanted to take her to the vet and have her checked out. I made a few calls to vets along with the vet we usually use for coggings testing and other minor things. The vet (the one we use most) said that if a mare has been bred before that it is not necessary to have her checked. I tend to disagree. My husband believes the vet and will not take either of the mares to the vet. What do you recommend. I am concerned because the one like I said is a maiden mare and the other miscarried last year. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also if you have any help on getting my husband to understand give me advise on that also. Thanks again and keep up the great work you are fantastic!!!!

Hi Jill,

Thank you so much for your kind words. It's people like you who make it all worthwhile!

I think every mare should be checked by a vet before being bred. People can save themselves a lot of time, money, and effort by having their mares checked ahead of time. In your case, the maiden should be checked to be sure there are no hidden reproductive problems. With the mare that has had foals before, I would have her checked for sure because of the abortion. It is very important to make sure she doesn't have an infection. If she does have an infection, it will either keep her from getting in foal or cause her to abort again. Your best bet is to try to find a vet in your area that does a lot of equine reproductive work. Vets that don't do a lot of reproductive work sometimes don't seem to understand how important these pre-breeding exams are.

I hope this helps. Thanks again for your encouragement and let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Kathy in the USA on February 17, 1998:

I have been foaling mares for about 19 years and have never seen the situation I am about to describe. She is a QH mare and is about 2 weeks overdue according to the book, but she usually goes about 2 weeks over. She has developed a huge ?? about the size of a football. It is hanging down. It looks grotesque. The vet said he thought it was a ruptured milk vein. He said not to do anything because she is so close to foaling. Have you ever heard of this happening, and what do you think is the outcome?

Hi Kathy,

Yes, I have seen what I think you're describing. Does it hang from a milk vein or somewhere else? The ones I've seen haven't been as big as footballs...probably the largest one was about the size of a big grapefruit, but most have been smaller. With the big one, after the mare foaled the vet I work for gave the area about a week or so to resolve as much as possible on its own, then drained it. It went away without a problem. I'm not sure what causes this, but your vet's explanation is probably correct. It looks terrible, I know, but shouldn't cause any lasting problems.

I hope this helps and please let us know what happens with it. This is something we can all learn from.

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I own a little pony and she is due around the 1st of march. She was bred to a very big sire (belgain) so we have been watching her closely and today I have noticed some signs that might point to her having it soon and I just want to make sure how long it is till she has it.

Here are some of the signs I have noticed :

Biting and chewing at her side.
Cranky.
Restless.
Staying away from the other horses.
Bagging up but no wax on the nipples.
Shape is changing ( gone triangular instead of round)
Carrying the baby low.
Tail is starting to sink a bit.
Seems to be lots of movement in the womb.
Tail keeps raising and twiching.

Also, will another horse attach herself or become very close to the horse that is going to have the baby. Can they sense that they are in labour or about to have?? Because my horse Ginger has gotten really close to her (which is unusual) and the other two horses want to be near the pony also but Ginger won't let them get near. With these signs is it possible to tell if it is going to be hours, days, or weeks for her to have it??

Hi Kyra,

Without seeing your pony, it sounds to me like she could be within days of foaling.

It's an interesting question you ask about your other mare bonding to the pony. I have thought at times that the other mares knew when one was close to foaling. I have no proof of this, just a feeling. Watch and see if Ginger is telling the truth!

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Jackie in the USA on February 23, 1998:

I have a 11 yr. old Arabian maiden mare that is due to foal around March 18th (best guess). I keep her pastured with a gelding (they think they are boyfriend and girlfriend), and she gets upset if she can't be with him. The other 2 geldings and my stud colt (2 yr old) are in an adjacent pasture. I have tried to tell my husband that we will need to keep her separated from the gelding about 2 weeks before she's due, in case she foals early, to prevent the gelding doing something to the foal. He won't listen and insists the gelding won't do anything. Please help me convince my husband. He won't listen if it comes from me, but from others he listens. Thanks for your help.

Also, I ran into this site by accident. I'm glad I did, its great!

Hi Jackie,

It really is best if the mare and gelding are separated. Geldings can be very unpredictable with foals--some are fine, some are very aggressive, and a few will even try to steal the foal from its mother. My opinion, always, is that it's better to be safe than sorry. You said the mare gets upset when she can't be with the gelding. Have you tried putting him in the adjacent pasture with the others? Does he get along with them? I just thought if the mare could at least see him, she might be more comfortable.

I'm really glad you've enjoyed the web site. Thanks again to Horseforum for providing it. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

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Submitted by Klaudya in the USA on February 26, 1998:

I purchased your foaling manual last year and it was a great help. Best I've ever read. I have had 2 mares foal in the past and always their udders have been full before foaling (one was even a maiden mare). I have another maiden mare that was due Feb. 12 and she still hasen't foaled. Her udder has not even begun filling yet. I will look for all the other tell-tell signs, like dropping, muscle relaxation, etc. My questions is this: will her udder fill immediately after foaling ? Or should I be prepared to bottle feed colostrum ? My mares who have foaled in the past have always had very full udders before foaling, making it easy to predict when they would foal. I'm going nuts trying to figure this one out! What's the longest gestation you've known of ? How long is too long?

Hi Klaudya,

Thanks for your kind words about the foaling book. I'm so glad it helped!

The longest I've had a mare go was last year. She went 375 days. We had one born last week at 368 days and everything was fine. "How long is too long" is a very difficult question to answer. The foal last year was very small and weak when he was born. He was eventually okay, but that's the problem with deciding to induce labor--without very sophisticated equipment, you just don't know if the foal is ready or not. Best rule of thumb is that if the mare is eating and acting okay, and there is good fetal movement, just try to wait it out. Mother Nature usually does know best. If it would make you feel better, have the vet out to check her.

Hopefully, your mare is just going to go overdue and will bag up before she foals. If she doesn't, she probably will after she foals. However, your idea to be prepared with colostrum is a good one. If she doesn't bag up, and starts making the other changes you described, it would be best to have some mare's milk replacement on hand, too. If you don't have to use it, the mill will most likely take it back and give you a refund.

They certainly can drive you nuts, can't they?!

Please let us know how it goes.

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